{"id":125043,"date":"2021-04-16T18:25:05","date_gmt":"2021-04-16T16:25:05","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/?post_type=opera_digitale&#038;p=125043"},"modified":"2022-10-20T23:26:44","modified_gmt":"2022-10-20T21:26:44","slug":"leonardo-caffo-is-the-human-public-the-only-public-we-can-aspire-to","status":"publish","type":"opera_digitale","link":"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-is-the-human-public-the-only-public-we-can-aspire-to\/","title":{"rendered":"Leonardo Caffo. Is the human public the only public we can aspire to?"},"content":{"rendered":"<section id=\"section-block_63519dae72876\" class=\"section  wpb-margin-top wpb-margin-bottom wpb-padding-top wpb-padding-bottom\" data-aos=\"fade\" data-type=\"mst-two-columns-content-section\">\n\t<div class=\"container-fluid\">\n\t\t<div class=\"row\">\n\t\t\t\n<div id=\"block-block_63519db272877\" class=\"col offset-0 offset-lg-1 col-12 col-lg-4 align-text-left align-content-top\" data-type=\"mst-column\">\n\t\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-what-is-the-public\/\">First Episode<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-is-the-digital-audience-a-real-public\/\"><strong>Second Episode<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Third Episode<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-is-the-public-a-neutral-notion-what-about-the-gender-audience\/\">Fourth Episode<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-what-about-audiences-not-aligned-with-a-dominant-culture-audiences-from-other-cultures\/\">Fifth Episode<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-what-does-it-mean-to-be-observed-by-historical-memory\/\">Sixth Episode<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-arent-objects-and-artworks-themselves-a-form-of-public\/\">Seventh&nbsp;Episode<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-what-does-it-mean-to-do-something-for-an-audience-of-the-future\/\">Eight Episode<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.castellodirivoli.org\/en\/opera_digitale\/leonardo-caffo-i-robot-sono-una-forma-di-pubblico\/\">Ninth Episode<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n<\/div>\n\n\n<div id=\"block-block_63519db272878\" class=\"col  col-12 col-lg-7 align-text-left align-content-top\" data-type=\"mst-column\">\n\t\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Third episode<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:20px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n    <div class=\"iframe-wrapper\">\n                <!--IUB-COOKIE-BLOCK-SKIP-START-->\n        <iframe src=\"\/\/players.brightcove.net\/745468061001\/default_default\/index.html?videoId=6248794052001\" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n        <!--IUB-COOKIE-BLOCK-SKIP-END-->\n    <\/div>\n\n\n\n<div style=\"height:30px\" aria-hidden=\"true\" class=\"wp-block-spacer\"><\/div>\n\n\n\n<p>Transcript of the third episode of&nbsp;<strong><em>The Disappearance of the Public<\/em><\/strong>, a new podcast in which Castello di Rivoli Philosopher in Residence Leonardo Caffo investigates the notion of the public, its disappearance, its different characteristics and qualities.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Manuela Vasco<\/strong>: Welcome to our weekly podcast with Castello di Rivoli Philosopher-in-Residence Leonardo Caffo, who\u2019s investigating with us the idea of the public, its disappearance, its different characteristics and qualities. I\u2019m your host Manuela Vasco from Castello di Rivoli \u2013 Cerruti Collection Communication Office. I welcome Leonardo Caffo and I\u2019d like to ask him:&nbsp;is the human public the only public we can aspire to? Do animals and plants look at us, listen to us, and why would we or wouldn\u2019t we want them to?<strong>&nbsp;<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Leonardo Caffo<\/strong>: Hello everyone and thanks to Manuela. We have reached the third episode of our podcast on the audience. Prior answering your question about the non-human audience, I would like to take stock of the situation. We started in the first episode by giving a general description of an alleged disappearance of the public with COVID-19. We tried to support the thesis \u2013 presenting the program and general lines of my residence as a philosopher at the Museum \u2013 that the public actually it had long since disappeared, if we use a strong definition of \u201cpublic\u201d. Not an audience like a selected otherness, which observes things exactly as we want, rather the public as \u201cmonstrous otherness\u201d had somehow disappeared long ago. So COVID-19 was an accelerator. In the second episode dedicated to the digital public \u2013 where we talked about a few works of art and the relationship between art and philosophy, in this case precisely in relation to digitization \u2013 we supported the thesis that, in some way, the public is such only if it contributes to the reality it is observing. We tried to say that the public is also and above all a participant in reality: by observing it, they create it. This is something quite relevant to introduce today\u2019s topic: is the human audience the only audience we can aspire to? Or do the animals and plants look at us, listen to us, and do we have this desire for them to observe us? In the history of philosophy there have been some moments of rupture of the so-called anthropocentrism, with respect to the question of the gaze of the other. The most important is represented by the so-called French structuralist and post-structuralist philosophy. When we talk about human-animal studies in philosophy, we almost always refer to a very beautiful and profound book that Jacques Derrida (Algiers, 1930 \u2013 Paris, 2004) wrote about the end of his life and which is called&nbsp;<em>The animal that therefore I am<\/em>&nbsp;(2002). The pivotal scene of this book is exactly with an animal. At a certain point, Jacques Derrida tells us that once in the bathroom, he suddenly sees himself naked observed by his cat and for the first time he recognizes not so much the possibility of looking at the other animal but the possibility that the other animal looks at us, questions us, looks for us, and tells us something and that in some way this gaze is uncanny. Jacques Derrida hisses everything with a fundamental phrase that is quoted and that surely has to do with the public-animal term. Derrida says \u201cthe animals look at us and we are naked in front of them. And the act of thinking maybe starts right here; the sense of otherness begins. It is Derrida\u2019s idea that clearly refers to the fact that philosophy begins when a look you can\u2019t manage observes you and brings you to shame. In this case, Jacques Derrida is talking about the shame of nudity. For an ancient reference to the fact that thinking has to do with the gaze of the other, we should obviously go back to Plato and his great and wonderful dialogue called&nbsp;<em>Gorgias<\/em>&nbsp;(c. 386 BC) on moral relativism. There is Socrates who fights with a whole series of characters \u2013 including Gorgias of course \u2013 and then in the school of Gorgias there is also Callicle, who defends a truly exceptional moral relativism. At a certain point Socrates, with the maieutic method, leads him to argue that, if everything is relative, Callicles should not even be ashamed of sodomy towards very young children. Callicle is ashamed; from that shame he begins to think about completely rebuilding his philosophical system. Derrida is referring to this when the cat looks at him and he is ashamed and tells us \u201cthe act of thinking maybe starts from here\u201d. The fundamental question, because Jacques Derrida recognizes the animal not so much as being a moral patient or subject of rights, as had already happened for some time at least in the 1970s in Anglo-American philosophy, in which philosophers began to say that animals have rights, which must not be eaten, killed, exploited. It is not a moral question for Derrida but a question of the public, of the gaze. The animal questions us and asks us something, tells us something and if our philosophies ask us something, our thoughts must somehow open beyond the fence of anthropocentrism. The word \u201copenness\u201d is fundamental in the animal question. Let us think of the great book by Giorgio Agamben (Rome, 1942)&nbsp;<em>The Open: Man and Animal<\/em>&nbsp;(2002), which refers to a tradition that overturns Martin Heidegger (Baden, 1889 \u2013 1976), which he had taken away from animals the world. He defined them as poor in the world, incapable of a face and if they are incapable of having a face, they are also incapable of being able to look at us. We must be honest: Jacques Derrida\u2019s vision has had some criticisms, perhaps the most important related to the idea of \u200b\u200bthe gaze of the animal that questions us, asks us things, modifies us, deconstructs us came from Donna Haraway (Denver, 1944 ). Philosopher, intellectual, feminist, revolutionary, who said that this vision of Jacques Derrida is important but is patriarchal. The cat appears to be the woman who watches us. Derrida wonders why the cat is watching him but does not wonder what it means to look at each other. There is a presumption of species, in which it is precisely humanity that is observed by the animality. Donna Haraway\u2019s critique actually brings us a reflection that, as always, starts from art. Donna Haraway was one of the agents that the director of the Castle Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev, as artistic director of dOCUMENTA (13) in 2012, wanted in her Advisory Board. Perhaps, it was the first great moment in which the question of other species was cleared in contemporary art as something conceptually relevant. In Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev\u2019s dOCUMENTA (13) there are actually some fundamental works for the animal\u2019s gaze in relation to what it means to produce art for other animals. What does it mean that a dominion, apparently produced only for us \u2013 a bit like it happened for philosophy in the revolution of Derridian structuralism \u2013 is open to other beings who are not precisely defined as human? It is already problematic to understand this definition of humanity where it begins and where it ends, because humanity seems to be a great patriarchal logocentric hat, which excludes many forms of humanity that approach animality. One of the quite significant works \u2013 and now I apologize if perhaps my pronunciations are imperfect \u2013 of Carolyn Christov-Bakargiev\u2019s dOCUMENTA (13) is the work of Kristina Buch (Meerbusch, 1983)&nbsp;<em>The Lover<\/em>&nbsp;(2012), which is a kind of a garden for butterflies where the artist creates a very fragile work, it looks like a high and robust manger for plants, full of thistles, nettles, trees, flowers of all kinds. In reality it is a super fragile work, where the artist has carefully selected native plants, thus creating a balanced ecological environment to feed some home-bred butterflies that he releases daily in this universe of ten meters by ten. And it is this animal liberation, which is a daily process of love, dedication and devotion to otherness, that constitutes the beauty of this work. A work that is designed for the gesture of animal liberation and therefore a gesture that is oriented to give a new aesthetic experience not to the human but to the animal. The same thing happens for example in another work featured in dOCUMENTA (13) by Brian Jungen (Fort St. John, 1970), who makes that park of sculptures for dogs. They are sculptures that, let\u2019s say, do not arouse an aesthetic judgment extraordinarily oriented towards wonder for us humans but are sculptures designed specifically to make the art flow to the dogs, to make them play with art, to transform the ordinary use that we have, the concepts, the sense of things, because this is the point of animality. The definition of public is that on which we have worked, that is, the public creates reality, the public is above all the encounter with a monstrous otherness, in the sense of ungovernable, unmanageable, beyond the rhetoric of what we we look for confirmation, but precisely a look that questions us, then the animal question is an essential question of philosophy and art. Where by animal question we must also understand the digital question, the mineral question, the question of art that was produced in ancient times only to be enjoyed by the gods. Crop circles that in this way are to be seen only from above or the artistic forms produced for the dead of spirits. Everything that goes beyond the boundaries of the human, beyond what we thought to be human. I am reminded of a book that has greatly influenced both art and the philosophy that is&nbsp;<em>A Foray Into the Worlds of Animals and Humans: With A Theory of Meaning<\/em>&nbsp;(1933) by Jakob Johann von Uexk\u00fcll (Keblaste, 1864 \u2013 Capri, 1944). The author is among the first to become aware of the other than himself, of the animal \u2013 in a stereotypical way because what is the animal? Derrida already wonders, we should always speak of the word and not only of an ontological and metaphysical compression in one word. It is essential to understand that every species, every other form of life, sees the world according to its own principles, according to its colors, according to its geometries and therefore the challenge of an art that seeks to go beyond the human is also the challenge of an art that seeks to go beyond what we know to be visible. It is an art that somehow points to the invisible, points to what is outside the eye, abstracts, thinks, tries to understand what it feels like to be a bat \u2013 as Thomas Nagel said (Belgrade, 1937) in a very famous article from the 1970s. And even if he can\u2019t do it, even if it is impossible to know what it feels like to be a bat as such, in any case to position oneself outside of one\u2019s own centrality, of one\u2019s own centralism, that is to deconstruct anthropocentrism \u2013 which was the great goal in \u2018 the art of dOCUMENTA (13) seems to be something essential. The gaze of the other animal as the gaze that positions us changes us. And to think, therefore, perhaps begins from here, to repeat these words \u2013 although rightly criticized \u2013 of Jacques Derrida. A novel comes to mind as I answer your question, Manuela, that the novel&nbsp;<em>Dissipatio H. G.<\/em>&nbsp;(1977) by Guido Morselli (Bologna, 1912 \u2013 Varese, 1973). A novel that Morselli writes without making us understand if the protagonist, who is obviously himself, is dead or all the other humans have died but the only ones from which Morselli can be seen are the animals. It is as if at the disappearance of humanity, the only ones able to position the gaze of this living human were the other animals. As if the animal\u2019s gaze were something that manages to stay in the balance between life and death. A fundamental intuition of Morselli. Because the idea \u2013 and this is where, as always, I try to advance bit by bit on my definition of \u201cpublic\u201d \u2013 is that the animal is somehow the only great holder of the genuine aesthetic experience. It is a thesis that runs through philosophy. The animal does not have the human expectation, it does not have the cultural superstructure that leads it to expect something from a work, an encounter or a clash and is condemned the first times, says for example Martina Heidegger in the&nbsp;<em>Fundamental Concepts of Metaphysics: World, Finitude, Solitude&nbsp;<\/em>(1983), which helps us. One of the great revolutions on the theory of the public, which comes from one of the great gigantic masters of the theater Antonin Artaud (Marseille, 1896 \u2013 Ivry-sur-Seine, 1948) \u2013 in his case we speak of theater of the absurd, of cursed theater \u2013 it tells us that the public exists only in the moment in which it witnesses an unrepeatable scene, which cannot be repeated in some way twice, a scene with not carrying its double within itself, as in a death. On the stage there is only life for what the life within itself represents of unrepeatable. For the human public this is very difficult because we always expect something. The aesthetic experience is very complex when we do not expect it to generate amazement, the thing from which philosophy begins precisely with shame. The animal, on the other hand, is always in a state of amazement, always in a condition of unrepeatability and, in some way, I answer the question that is asked of me today by saying that the non-human seems to be the only one who can be public in the strong sense. in which we are defining it or in the sense in which, for example, Arteaud already wanted it with the theater of cruelty, with the idea that the concept of repetition of the image was a total false and that, as in the eye, every variation of components in the current world exists generating a new potential scene. Paradoxically, if we give the very definition of \u201cstrong audience\u201d that we are trying to give, an audience completely other than our expectations, which creates the scene while enjoying it, is the monstrous other that enters the scene and is also the only type of the public who can experience this genuine aesthetic experience of surprise without expectation, linked to the world that manifests itself as a phenomenon. That thing that is there, beyond how we would like to capture or cage it. But the question was: why would we or wouldn\u2019t we want them to do it? The thought of the philosophy of Derrida, on the one hand, and of the animalist feminism of Donna Haraway, of Rosi Braidotti (Latisana, 1954) and Karen Barad (1956) on the other, who have made the animal a cardinal question of their philosophies. It is somehow from the animal that we learn to be human, from the plant we learn human beings from the ecosystem we learn human beings. Not because we describe ourselves through this other audience, as in some kind of negative theology. But because it is through the gaze of the other that somehow does not strengthen us in our theses, but forces us to rethink everything, to rethink metaphysics from the point of view of those who crawl, swim or fly and not those who walk like us , to rethink epistemology not on the basis of central nervous systems but on the basis of peripheral systems of plant roots or even to rethink our definition of life starting from materials and how materials move in space, that life does not it is definable but it defines us. And this is the definition of public that after three weeks I would like to share with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Manuela Vasco<\/strong>: I thank you all for being with us. I\u2019d also like to thank Regione Piemonte, Fondazione CRT, Citt\u00e0 di Torino, Citt\u00e0 di Rivoli and our partners Fondazione Compagnia di San Paolo and Intesa Sanpaolo\/Gallerie d\u2019Italia. Our digital programs are also made possible thanks to Fondazione Compagnia di San Paolo. We look forward to welcoming you again next week for this exciting series of podcasts with the philosopher Leonardo Caffo.<\/p>\n\n\n<\/div>\n\n\n\t\t<\/div>\n\t<\/div>\n<\/section>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"","protected":false},"author":730,"featured_media":0,"template":"","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"inline_featured_image":false,"footnotes":""},"class_list":["post-125043","opera_digitale","type-opera_digitale","status-publish","hentry"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Leonardo Caffo. 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